RAWR!!! re-training help?

[jlbackcountry]

I have to completely re-train my gelding. 16-years old mind you! Pluck. They just did not take care of him. He was underweight, he wasn't getting any hay, and barely enough feed. I got up on him bareback -- ten seconds later I was laying on my back/face on the ground (tell me that didn't hurt.) :oops: . Let's ask our neighbors who've owned/trained horses all their lives. "You should probably re-train him." Tell me that isn't the worst five words in the horse-language that you have ever heard. My dad got up on him, he was fine, I got on him a second time, he was fine. 2 days later -- The little bucking bronco let me get up on him and then he kicked out. I jumped off and asked my dad to get up on him (his comment was, "Oh, yeah, let me get bucked off," I looked at him innocently and said, "You're older than me." MUAHAA) -- Moving on. My dad got up there, he tried to buck him off, but my dad stayed on (shakes finger at). I've gotten him to lunge (he gets sort of flighty during that), I've gotten him to pivot (he keeps his hindquarters in a circle), and I've gotten him to sidepass (sort of a sidepass). My rather large gelding has to be re-trained and I dunn know where to start. I'm going to try and have our farrier come out and help........
Have any advice or anything, guys?

[Coffee702]

If you can, try to obtain some Pat Parelli dvd's. He's fabulous and his dvd's work on any horse, no matter what the training or not.I've used his work on my horses and am very fortunate to have a good relationship with them. The dvd's also help to determine what sort of personality your horse has and to work with that personality accordingly. It's amazing! Hope this helps!

parelli.com

[hillbillyin]

Where are you located? I could get you the name of a trainer who helped my niece re-train her 13 year old quarter horse---she did an awesome job!

[MrsJake]

I'm no expert, but I did re-train a 9 year old once. One of the major ideas to keep in your head is this: You have to un-train first. I know that sounds silly, and it is a little difficult to do, but just think about it for a minute. It's a long road, but it's really rewarding. I still remember the day that the mare finally did a collected canter, and that was about 10 years ago :) Just remember that he THINKS he knows how to behave, so you have to try to un-teach the bad habits before you re-teach the good ones. GOOD LUCK!!!

[jlbackcountry]

Originally Posted by hillbillyin

Where are you located? I could get you the name of a trainer who helped my niece re-train her 13 year old quarter horse---she did an awesome job!

I live in Ohio, the southern part to be exact. I would like to do Parelli, but I don't know. I like Parelli as well, just how gentle he is with horses and all that.

Originally Posted by MrsJake

You have to un-train first. I know that sounds silly, and it is a little difficult to do, but just think about it for a minute. It's a long road, but it's really rewarding.

One question? How exactly do you un-train a horse. He's got a bad habit of rubbing his head against you, and I'm trying to break him of it. I don't exactly know how to go about un-training him. Can you give me some pointers MrsJake? :]

[MrsJake]

Ok, that one I'm not so sure about
One thing that I've found to help with that is to make sure to give him plenty of scratches on the face when he is at arms-length. When he tries to rub on you, stick a thumb out or keep a hoof pick in your hand and just give him a little poke (disclaimer: I am NOT suggesting that you hit your horse in the face or ever poke him with something that is sharp) Just enough to make him pull his head away from you. When he backs off a little bit, that's when you give him a good face rub. No guarantees, but it has worked for me in the past. It's one of the tougher ones, because in my experience, the horses that do this are just too comfortable with being in your personal space. Usually they have lots of symptoms with one root cause.

The point of the un-training thing is more of the idea that you have to start from the beginning. I would not even worry about side-passes and turns on the haunch. What he needs is the REALLY boring work. Start him like you would a baby. He needs to learn how to respond well and behave himself at a walk, and even before that, he needs to learn how you behave in a halter, at a walk and trot.
Just start out at the VERY beginning and re-write his brain for being a well-behaved and trained horse. It's horribly tedious, but it seems like it really helps to turn the end product into what you want.

[hillbillyin]

Well, the trainer my niece found is in Indiana, but maybe she has the name of someone closer to you that has the same style. I couldn't believe how much more confident and smoothly my niece and her horse are together! The main basis of this training is trust between horse and rider. I'll ask my niece for her name and contact info. Maybe she could even give you some advice over the phone---but most likely, she would want to see you and the horse together.

[tlrohr]

JLB, I had one that use to do that and I broke it with my elbow. Everytime I saw him coming I would put my elbow out --- causing a little pop to him --- which he thought he did himself. He no longer does it -- but when he did -- it was like he was almost knocking me over. The little filly that just came here --- she does it also and I haven't the heart to start breaking her of it yet --- but her time will come.

[jlbackcountry]

thanks hillbillyin, maybe that'd help out a bit. :]
Okay, I'll try that tomorrow. I'm going to see about borrowing a friends saddle to see how he does with it. He's pretty good with manners at the walk, but the trot, well, he's not too sure about that quite yet. Everytime we take off at a trot, for some reason, he always catches the heel of my boot and it scares him half-to-death. I'll have to try some of the things you guys suggested. I'll let you know whats going on with updates and whatnot. :]]

[westmar]

When your horse goes to rub his head on you push his head away and sternly tell him 'quit' or 'No'. Try and catch him just as he thinks on doing it. Since he has a habit of that I would not scratch his head at all until he is trained to not rub on you. The previous owner may have started rubbing his head as a reward system and thought it was okay to let the horse use them as a scratching post. For reward of good behavior, give a quick rub on his neck, you can also gently give him a small pat on the neck and say a, 'good boy' to him, not letting him rub his head on you. It also sounds like he is feeling better now from being malnourished-look at what your feeding him. Are you feeding him grain to help him gain wieght? That may be some of the cause for his bucking, he is too hot from grain. If you are not feeding grain then maybe he just feels better and/OR was never really trained to begin with? Just food for thought.